“Fun doesn’t make you less professional” with Gina Buckle
Do your thing · Episode 5 · Hosted by Fliss Lee
How to find your niche, bring more personality into your brand and redefine what professional looks like
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I’ve worked with Gina Buckle on my own brand messaging, and she came through my Brand Blueprint programme while figuring out what she wanted the next version of her business to look like.
So I’ve had a bit of a front-row seat to Gina going from a freelance copywriter who did a bit of everything to becoming very clear about what she wanted to be known for: fun, humour and personality.
In this episode, I’m joined by Gina, founder of Hoot Copy, copywriter, brand voice strategist and self-appointed Queen of Fun.
We talk about the point when Gina realised she didn’t really have a business – she was just busy and had lots of work – and why that made her want to become much more intentional about what she was building.
Gina shares what finding her niche actually looked like, how paying attention to the work she enjoyed helped her find her focus, and why she's had to unlearn some of her old ideas about how much she should be working along the way.
And, of course, we talk about fun. Why fun and professionalism aren't opposites, how to find your own version of fun rather than forcing someone else's, and why a good brand should attract the right people and put some of the wrong ones off.
We also get into experimenting with your business, learning from the things that don't work, and why enjoying how you work is something worth paying attention to.
What you’ll learn in this episode
How Gina went from being a generalist freelance copywriter to finding a niche she genuinely wanted to be known for
Why adding fun and personality to your brand doesn't make you less professional – and can help attract the right customers
How paying attention to what you enjoy, testing things and questioning your ideas about work can help you build a business that suits you
Listen to the episode
Find it on your chosen podcast player here.
About Gina Buckle
Gina Buckle is the founder of Hoot Copy, a copywriting and brand voice consultancy specialising in fun, humour and personality.
She helps businesses work out what their authentic version of fun looks like and bring more of it into their copy and brand voice, without sacrificing clarity or sounding like they're trying too hard.
Her work helps brands develop a voice that feels natural to them, connects with the people they want to reach and is easy to use consistently.
Episode links
Follow Gina on Instagram: @gina.hootcopy
Connect with her on Linkedin
Visit Gina’s website
You might also like
If Gina’s story about allowing her business and brand to evolve resonates, listen to my conversation with Lucy Critchley about learning what works for you through self-employment and building a business around it.
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Want to be a guest?
Got a story or experience that could help other founders, freelancers or creative folk do things their own way?You can pitch to be a guest on Do your thing here.
Chapters
00:00 – Meet Gina Buckle and Hoot Copy
02:17 – Finding a niche in copywriting and brand voice
03:45 – Being busy isn't the same as having a business
05:42 – How Gina found what she wanted to be known for
09:14 – Going from freelancer to business owner
11:00 – Redefining success and working fewer hours
14:07 – Why fun doesn't make you less professional
16:09 – Attracting the right people and putting off the wrong ones
18:04 – Bringing your personality into your marketing
21:03 – Working out what you actually enjoy
22:43 – Paying attention to how your work makes you feel
25:12 – Building more fun into your working week
29:01 – Working, resting and procrastination
30:54 – Gina's hourly check-in
31:48 – The habits that help Gina enjoy work more
35:09 – Consistency, guilt and bouncing back
36:25 – How brand strategy made Gina's rebrand easier
38:00 – Using your brand to develop new services
39:05 – Getting rid of the ‘professional’ filter
42:15 – Why experimenting makes business more fun
42:58 – Learning from failure in your business
47:01 – People want to work with people, not ‘professionals’
47:34 – Why having the right people around you matters
Transcript
Fliss (00:00)
Gina, I am so chuffed you're all here chatting to me today. You are more than welcome. So I would love to start by sharing about kind of you and your three years in business. Am I right, three years? Exciting. How did you start and how did you get to where you are today?
Gina Buckle (00:04)
Thank you so much for having me, thanks.
Yeah, yeah, just over three years, yep.
So yeah,
I started self-employed life as a freelancer. I was in a role doing content and a bit of copywriting ⁓ and I knew I wanted to do copywriting full-time. So I started looking around for jobs ⁓ that could afford me like the day-to-day responsibilities I wanted, but also like the lifestyle that I knew I wanted and I couldn't find anything. ⁓ So I had an opportunity come into my lap and it sort of...
Fliss (00:47)
Mmm. ⁓
Gina Buckle (00:53)
It was like perfect timing. I couldn't have like planned it better. And then once that opportunity came in, I moved quite quickly actually from like leaving that role that I was into setting up as a freelancer. And then it just sort of grew from there. I joined a couple of networking groups, one that we're both part of, Northern Affinity. And just from there was just really, I don't know, spent a lot of time and was very intentional about
building a good group of people around me and a good network. And I think from then on, was just like, I had really strong referrals coming in, really good word of mouth about what I was doing and who I was doing it for. But I will say I was busy, but I was also very generic. Like I was a very generic copywriter. did all copy for everyone in all styles. And I think that was a good...
thing to do and I think it's a good way to start as a freelancer as or as a self-employed person is to just try out doing lots of things, see what you enjoy, see what you're good at and also see what the demand is for, like what the demand is as well. So I don't regret that. But yeah, that's sort of how I started out was going, I'm just going to try everything, do a bit of everything. ⁓ And yeah, I did that for about two years, I think, yeah, two years of that life.
Fliss (02:12)
Tell
us about what you're doing now then.
Gina Buckle (02:17)
So now, rather than being a generic copywriter does everything, I do ⁓ have a much more niche and specific approach. So I focus on humor, fun and personality when it comes to copywriting and brand voice. And I did that because I saw a lot of like my clients I was working with as a freelancer, but also I could see it more widely in the industry that people were asking for. It's something that people
Fliss (02:22)
You
Gina Buckle (02:46)
saw the demand for in marketing and brand. And particularly with my own clients, whenever we'd say, like we discuss a brief and they'd say, we want this to be really fun and funny. And I'd go, all right, tell me more about that. What, what do you mean by that? And they'd go, I don't know. That's we just, we spent six weeks coming up with fun and funny. just kind of thought you'd like figure out the rest. So I saw the demand for fun and like a more human approach to marketing, but I couldn't see the like,
detail behind it or the strategy behind it. So that's what I sort of focus on with my clients now. It's not just writing funny copy, not just writing fun copy. It's like looking at why we're doing that and how that is consistent, how that tracks with the rest of your brand and making sure that it's consistent and authentic because anything other than that is just really performative and people can see through that. So yeah, that's what I focus on. I still do a lot of different formats of copy that I deliver that in, but
Fliss (03:36)
Yeah. Yeah.
Gina Buckle (03:41)
the approach is a lot more focused, it feels a lot more, yeah, it feels right for me.
Fliss (03:45)
Yeah, definitely. I mean, I know you. You're a very funny, funny person, very jolly, so it does fit. What kind of made you go from freelancing and doing everything copy related? What made you go, actually, I want to change this?
Gina Buckle (03:48)
⁓ thank you so much. ⁓
⁓ I think it was, sort of realized that I didn't really have a business. I just sort of had, I was just busy and I had work. ⁓ and I had a conversation with, ⁓ a woman called Kay story who is, she does branding as well. and we did a bit of like an offer exchange. So I did some work on her copy and she did some work on my brand. ⁓ and she asked me a couple of questions about like, so who's your target audience? What do they want? And I was like,
copy? Dunno. ⁓ She was like, what about your logo? What the colour that you've chosen for your logo? Is that because your audience like it? I was like, no, I like it. I like green. I thought that was how you're to do a logo. And I just realised like, there's nothing, this, this won't last. And I felt like it was either, it was a case of I can take control of this and be a lot more intentional about it and build something that I actually want.
Fliss (04:33)
Hehehehe
Gina Buckle (04:58)
and do that now, rather than it happened to me like in three, five years down the line when I'm forced to make that decision and then it's no longer something that I'm in control of. So I just thought, okay, I'm gonna like not burn down the way things were, but that's sort of what's ended up happening. ⁓ I was just like, okay, no, I'm gonna do something a lot more intentional ⁓ and create something that I can like actually talk to and talk about.
rather than just saying, I do copy for people that need words, because that's not sustainable enough for what I want this to be. I want to be able to do this job for as long as I want to work. And the way that things were when I was a freelancer, I just knew it wasn't going to give me that.
Fliss (05:42)
Yeah, yeah. So you mentioned that you'd been working with clients and you asked them kind of what they wanted and they said fun, but couldn't tell you anymore. But how did you really figure out that fun was your thing? What kind of thought process did you go through to get to that stage?
Gina Buckle (05:51)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
⁓ Well, it was part of this process. I don't know if you've heard of it. It's called the brand blueprint. ⁓ And I started that process, not really knowing what I wanted, but knowing what I wanted the outcomes to be. So I didn't know what I wanted my business to look like, but I knew how I wanted it to feel. I wanted a change, basically.
Fliss (06:19)
Mm.
Mm.
Mm.
Gina Buckle (06:28)
Um, so we were working through the exercises. Um, and I still didn't really feel like I had a good direction on things and where things are going until about halfway through. And I wish I could remember the moment where it like all happened and came into place. I think it might've been on the tube, which is really sad because I don't like the tube. Um, but it was that I want to write fun, like genuinely fun copy. was the phrase I had in my head was genuinely fun and funny copy. Um.
And I knew it was a good idea because I asked my sister and my sister is very, very direct. She's brilliant and so direct. Like she will just tell you exactly like it is. So when I said to her, I've had this idea, I want to be the copywriter that's known for like genuinely fun and funny copy. She went, well, yeah, obviously. I was like, right, okay, cool. That's it. We've got the green light. This is a good idea. But then having like...
Fliss (07:15)
Ugh.
Gina Buckle (07:22)
found that clarity and that overarching theme of what I wanted to do. When I then looked back through like the blueprint exercises we were doing, it was there. It was already there. I was referring to it in different ways, but it just needed that like eureka moment to like pull it all through into like that one thread. ⁓ So yeah, I can't remember the actual moment, but I remember the validation from my sister ⁓ and also the validation.
Fliss (07:32)
Hmm.
Gina Buckle (07:49)
from within my own business. Like when I look back at content that I enjoy creating and my own marketing that I enjoy doing, the stuff that I had the most fun doing and felt easiest to me was the fun stuff. So it just, yeah, it just all clicked and all fell into place.
Fliss (08:06)
Wow, it's funny isn't
it? Like you have to start the process of thinking about your business to get to those like penny drop moments, I to call them. But often it's when you step away from doing the thinking and you're just doing something mundane like being on the tube. And it just pops into your head and you go, that's the one. But you've got to do a bit of prep, prep thinking.
Gina Buckle (08:14)
Yes. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, Absolutely. I've
always wondered if was like change of scenery had something to do with it as well, because I live in Leeds. So going down to London to see my family, was like, let's just zone, just get a fresh pair of eyes, fresh thinking about things. And yeah, it probably had a lot to do with the penny drop moment, I think.
Fliss (08:31)
Yeah.
Yeah, that's so exciting. I'd love to hear that. I never really knew it happened like when you left Leeds and gone to London. So I really like hearing you sing.
Gina Buckle (08:49)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, so I had it all like, swilling
around in my brain and then just, yeah, I had a seat on a tube that someone else had sat in recently and then thought, yeah, warm seat, sat in a warm seat on the tube. Maybe if I find the actual carriage I could put like a blue plaque up or something like this is where you're coming.
Fliss (09:00)
warm. ⁓
Oh my god yes,
this is where a hoot copy began. I absolutely love that. So since then, so now you're doing that full time and doing it absolutely fabulously, but is there anything about work that you believe or work or success that's changed since you started?
Gina Buckle (09:14)
Yeah, that's where it all started. See that butt print? That's where it happened.
Thank you.
⁓ yes, literally everything. ⁓ literally everything about work and what I thought success was. ⁓ it's been like, I always like to say if you had gone to like the Gina before she signed up for the brand blueprint and before she went through this like change versus like the Gina that I am now and you'd said to that old Gina,
You can get to this place and you can like have really cool inquiries coming in, work on really cool projects, but you will have to go through this period of like complete transformation. I think she'd have said, no, I don't want that. But now if someone, yeah, I think if someone came to me now and said, we can make wave a magic wand to make it all go back to the way it was, I'd say absolutely not. Do drop that one. Don't touch it. I want like, I'm very, very happy with the way things are now. And I think that's
the way the best transformation comes about, it's change that you didn't want, but actually ends up better than you. That sounds really dark, it? It's just, so I thought that going from freelancing to running a business and like being really intentional about the focus and the approach of what I was doing and sort of niching down, I thought that was going to be going from like, it was going to be a step up.
Fliss (10:41)
Yeah, do you want to delve into that anymore? What about the change? Did you not want?
Gina Buckle (10:59)
from my freelancing, but what I actually experienced was it was a start from scratch. Like it was starting from zero again. But again, that has been the best thing that could ever happen because it's made me change absolutely everything about how I do what I do. if I look at every single part of my business now, like my systems, my mindset, my approach to marketing, the stuff that I'm like non-negotiable, consistent with, all of it is stronger than before I went through this.
change. And as a part of that, it's completely changed how I think about work. And I did a post about this this morning on Instagram. I worked 22 hours last week, I saw it on my tracker. And my initial reaction was, that's not enough. Like, I'm clearly not taking this seriously enough, if I'm only working 22 hours. But then I thought, well, hang on. When I picture my absolute dream business, it is not one that has me chained to a
Fliss (11:39)
Thanks
Yeah.
Gina Buckle (11:53)
a desk for eight hours a day. It's one where I can work 20 to 25 hours a week and like still go out and do all the fun things that I did. But I also had a really like, I guess, purposeful week in terms of the stuff that I did do for work. So like I signed a new client, had some disco calls, sound, which were really fun. So it's like, I feel it feels less about the input now. I'm less focused on input and how much I'm doing.
Fliss (12:17)
Mm-hmm.
Gina Buckle (12:20)
⁓ and I'm more focused on what I'm doing and how it makes me feel and why I'm doing it as well. Which is, yeah, probably one of the biggest changes I've felt throughout this whole thing.
Fliss (12:31)
Oh, that's really interesting. that's what we all want to get to. It's really hard actually because as you said, you you've been working in a way for so long that even if your aim is to work less than 40 hour weeks, when you do it, you're like, feel this instant, oh God, I didn't work enough.
Gina Buckle (12:36)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah,
it's panic. And like I said this in my post as well, I feel like as business owners, we are just surrounded by people who like glorify the hustle and like working ridiculous hours and compromising on every other part of your life for the sake of work. ⁓ And don't get me wrong, like I have worked very hard to create this business and I like I'm working hard, but it just looks different now.
It feels a lot more intentional and it feels a lot more aligned to what I know I want. ⁓ But yeah, it's still that, that it's a knee-jerk reaction that voice I had in my head that was like, that's not enough. Like you're not taking this seriously enough. And it just takes, it takes a long time to unlearn.
Fliss (13:17)
Yes.
It takes years to unfortunately to unlearn that stuff that you've been having for years.
Gina Buckle (13:31)
Yeah, yes.
Yeah, and I'm not saying I've unlearned it, like I'm not done, there's more to do, but it's, ⁓ yeah, it was a good milestone to celebrate that. Thanks.
Fliss (13:42)
such an achievement and I think
like there will be weeks where you work 40 plus hour weeks some weeks you know it's all about that ⁓ that's the balance isn't it yeah yeah and so obviously you do fun that's what your business is centered around but I know you have a lot of fun outside of work as well ⁓
Gina Buckle (13:46)
⁓ yeah. Yeah.
Exactly, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Fliss (14:07)
I would love to chat to you about having fun in your business. Like, I don't know where to start on this, Gina. There's so much we could talk about. Like, guess one of the things I'd love to know from you is how do you have fun in your business as a starting point?
Gina Buckle (14:13)
Yeah.
⁓ So there are so many things you can do to have fun and add fun to your business but you can't do any of them if you are thinking that everything you do or say or put out there could put people off. Like if you wanted to do like a funny post or write an out of office statement that's a bit like funny or has a joke in it or something.
The thing that stops people from doing that is they think, well, hang on, what if this client sees this, they're going to see me as less professional, as a less serious person, as not as capable at my job, which is not true. I get this all the time when people say, when I tell people what I do and they say, what about being professional? What about maintaining professionalism? And I say, okay, tell me what professionalism means. Can you define that for me? And they go,
They either can't or they go, I don't know, it just means I'm good at my job. To which I say, what does having fun and being fun, how does that negate your ability to do your job? Like, I don't think the two are mutually exclusive at all. And once you get over that conception that we have about professionalism and fun and like what we are delivering, the work that we do, it then just becomes so much easier to find opportunities for like...
adding some whimsy into your day. like some examples that I mentioned earlier, like making you out of office statement a bit fun, like adding a ⁓ more lighthearted email sign off, things like that. Like even the way you decorate your own office or how you dress at networking events or how you talk to people at networking events. Like I've just reordered my business cards today. ⁓ and I've put like, it says a copy and Brown voice full of whimsy and levity and the lulls on it. Like that's, that's on my business card now, but
Fliss (15:44)
you
Love
that.
Gina Buckle (16:09)
once you know what clients you want to be working with and the kind of people you want to be attracting, it then becomes kind of fun to put the wrong people off. ⁓ Like I did, you were there at Connect Up earlier this year and I had a stall for my business ⁓ and I thought, well, what can I like have on my stall that's going to attract the right people, but also going to make the wrong people go, no, that's really
Fliss (16:20)
Yes, yes.
Mm-hmm.
Gina Buckle (16:37)
that's really loud and annoying, I'm not gonna go over there. So I made a Splat the Rat contraption and I gave away worms on a string as the prize. And I could see it in real time, people like physically turning their noses up at it and I could see them doing it I was like, great, we're not gonna have a conversation then and you just saved me a lot of time because if you don't like Splat the Rat, you're not gonna like what I have to offer copy wise.
Fliss (16:48)
Mm-hmm.
Gina Buckle (17:04)
But then the other side of that, had loads of people coming up being like, oh my God, is that smack the, I thought it was a string. Like it just, it does its job. But as soon as you can clarify who you want to be speaking to and who you don't want to be speaking to, they just like, it just becomes so much easier to spot the opportunities to like reflect that in your day-to-day life.
Fliss (17:21)
you
Totally, like I always say that your brand should put people off because who wants to have like calls with people who you might potentially work with that are just a waste of time. Put them off before that, get rid of them, gone.
Gina Buckle (17:28)
Absolutely.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah,
absolutely. 100%. I think this is something about brand that people don't like, they don't want to acknowledge it. ⁓ and it's what like a good brand speaks to the right people, but in order to speak to the right people, it also has to put the wrong people off. And for a lot of businesses, the idea of putting anyone off is very scary. And I completely understand that, but
Fliss (17:55)
Yes.
Gina Buckle (18:01)
It's just so worth it. It's just so worth it.
Fliss (18:04)
And you have a lot of fun in your content. I mean, you've already mentioned they did rat at an event. Yeah, Genius, I might say. ⁓ But you have so much fun in your content to the point where you do like improv and things like that outside of work and then use that to talk like that is your content. Is that like?
Gina Buckle (18:08)
I do.
a business conference here.
Yeah.
Fliss (18:29)
that a conscious decision or was that just something that can happen?
Gina Buckle (18:32)
⁓ it's just sort of, I signed up to the improv courses, and the standup course, knowing that it would give me skills in my business, which meant I could write it off as a business expense as well. ⁓ cause like classes are CPD. but, but I didn't, I didn't realize that I didn't sign up to it thinking, this will make a good LinkedIn posts. ⁓ but I think it has just like, it's
Fliss (18:43)
Mm.
Love you.
Gina Buckle (18:59)
changed how I think and it's changed how I like look for things and look for like patterns and like connection in between things. So yeah, and I think that's just a interesting, it's something I wanted to share with people in my audience that like, even if you don't want to be an improv comedian, if you don't want to do standup comedy, like sometimes when you want to improve like your skill set in something, don't
do training in that skill set, do training that like is a transferable skill for that skill set. ⁓ So yeah, I didn't sign up thinking I'm gonna write content about this, but I work in marketing, so everything is content. ⁓ That sort of happened organically, I think.
Fliss (19:31)
Hmm.
But
I find that really interesting you saying that, like, I work in marketing so everything is content because some people go, I don't know, you know, some people don't necessarily do that, like bring their things outside of work into it. But you show the fun in your brand by doing that, bringing you outside of work into it, which I love.
Gina Buckle (19:53)
Mm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you. Thanks. And that's, that's who people work with. They work with the whole me. That sounds really cliche, but like, I, I obviously, I don't do like standup comedy on my client calls and I don't do like improv exercises on my client calls, but like they are, especially when you're a solo printer and it's just you and your business, people are working with you. They get in touch with you. They want to work with you.
And the more of yourself that you can show, the easier it makes for the right people to go, yeah, I want to work with that person. How do I make this happen as quickly as possible?
Fliss (20:37)
Yeah, I'm just thinking about your videos that you do on Instagram. Absolutely crack me up every time you post them. They're just so funny. And you can see that you love that side of like humor and stand up and et cetera, et cetera. And then you're bringing that into marketing scenarios. ⁓
Gina Buckle (20:40)
Thanks.
Yeah it's very silly. I need to buy another
wig soon, I need to get another character in there because I think we've exhausted the short, crop brunette. I need to get something else.
Fliss (21:03)
I do love that character. If you haven't seen it, please go and watch Gina's reels. are so funny.
What helped you notice what brings joy into your work? Or the way you work?
Gina Buckle (21:19)
Ooh, that's a good question. I think it's just like paying attention to how I feel at the end of every day and how I feel approaching projects. Because I don't believe in the whole find something that you love and you never have to work a day in your life. That's just not true. not true. But I do think that like you can pay more attention.
Fliss (21:38)
Yeah, not here.
Gina Buckle (21:45)
we could all pay more attention to how things make us feel and how the work makes us feel. And it was, I think it was one of the exercises we did as part of Blueprint actually, it was just analyzing, okay, sit down and actually think about what do I enjoy doing? Because there's a difference between stuff that you end up doing and stuff that you're good at and you can do quickly and stuff that you can actually like wake up every day excited about.
Fliss (21:49)
Hmm.
Gina Buckle (22:12)
So it is, it sounds really simple, but it is just a case of sitting down and thinking about it. That sounds really obvious, but like, we don't, I think when it's just, when you're running a business, you think, yeah, it'd be nice to think about that one day, but then you move on to whatever hundred things you need to think about that day. So yeah, just taking the time to be like, just audit. What did I do this week? What did I love doing? What was I excited about doing? What did I procrastinate on? What did I want to put off?
Fliss (22:18)
Yeah, yeah.
Gina Buckle (22:39)
And yeah, I think the results will surprise you, surprise me definitely.
Fliss (22:43)
Did you use that approach to decide who to work with, what networking events to go to, other things, what to do?
Gina Buckle (22:50)
Yeah, I think with stuff like networking events and like projects that I take on, I always give it bit of grace to start with. like, ⁓ I've been to networking events where I had a terrible time, but then I thought maybe it was just a bad set of people that one time, or maybe it was just weird vibes that one evening. So I'll, I'll give it another chance. But then as soon as you get like, as soon as I know for sure, I'm like, nah, I'm not wasting my time. And the same goes for like.
Sometimes it is just a bad egg and it's a client you don't click with. ⁓ But I don't think that means you should write off like an entire industry or an entire business size or ⁓ yeah, a specific deliverable that you're doing. ⁓ think, yeah, give yourself enough data to work with. ⁓ But when you know, know, like, is that gut feeling? Yeah, well, like if...
Fliss (23:44)
Yeah,
it's, yeah.
Gina Buckle (23:45)
If
I, I always know that it's not right, because if I'm hoping that it's cancelled, if I'm praying that I check my emails and the person's gone, or actually we're going to reschedule, it's probably a sign I don't really want to do it. ⁓
Fliss (23:53)
Hehehehehe
Yeah, like how many times do we do go into things and get, I just don't want to do this. I think a big part of being self-employed is learning a lot about yourself. ⁓ We've all done that. But also like really reading yourself and really understanding ⁓ what those feelings mean or what that good feeling means, et cetera. Yeah.
Gina Buckle (24:07)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Yeah, absolutely. Because I have been networking events
where I haven't wanted to go purely because it's in the evening and it means putting my bra back on and I don't want to do it. So noticing what's like the difference between I'm just being a bit lazy and don't want to get off my sofa right now versus actually this does not feel like a good use of my time. I don't feel like my people are going to be there. So yeah, even distinguishing like really small differences between feelings like that. It's again, it takes time to figure out.
Fliss (24:33)
Yeah. ⁓
Gina Buckle (24:52)
yeah, it's, it's hard, but.
Fliss (24:52)
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
so it's it's understanding what's laziness or what's you thinking, oh god, am I gonna have to small talk with other people who I don't, you want to work with? Yeah.
Gina Buckle (25:00)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, who aren't wearing
jeans. A lot of people in network don't like, I feel like I turn up in jeans like, wow, she's a creative. Look at her. She's so, so quirky and unprofessional. It's just, I'm just wearing trainers. It's very silly.
Fliss (25:12)
⁓ yeah, and look at her in her dungarees. Yeah,
and we have so little time when it's just you and your business, you've got to spend your time wisely, haven't you? So what does fun look like for you? How do you build it into your work and your day to day? That's a massive question. you're weak. Let's say you're weak. Not every day is going to be.
Gina Buckle (25:28)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
My week...um...oh
Fliss (25:41)
wildly hilarious.
Gina Buckle (25:43)
well. No, it's not, it can't be. ⁓ So at the moment I'm doing a stand-up course. ⁓ I have a session tonight actually and that's a very like structured approach to adding fun to your week. But I also think it could be...if somebody is listening to this thinking I want to have more fun, sign up to an improv course. It will make you like very silly. The ROI on silly.
is off the scale with improv, it's a worthy investment. ⁓ But so just look for like actual places to do that. ⁓ And I think also just like day to day and more business, because all I do is content and copy. That's my job. And then it's the marketing of my own business. ⁓ I just like, I've spent a lot of time tapping into what I actually want to say.
Fliss (26:10)
You
Gina Buckle (26:33)
and how I actually want to say it and like getting rid of that professional filter I think we've all, we all put on ourselves. ⁓ And even when I go networking and stuff like that, don't, I don't really, I can make small talk about the weather, but I kind of want to ask people, do you believe in ghosts? Like, what are your thoughts on eight? Like it, and that sounds really cliche, but even just things like that, again, some people will go, what do you mean? What a networking event. I want to know about your price list.
Fliss (26:50)
you
Gina Buckle (27:01)
what people you've worked with, but then the right people go, yes, I believe in ghosts. Let me tell my favorite ghost story. it just, yeah, it's, again, it just makes the right people go, yeah, I wanna have another conversation with you. ⁓ And yeah, one of my values for Hoot Copy is ⁓ fun is for every day. So if I get to like the afternoon, like the post lunch slump,
Fliss (27:15)
you
Gina Buckle (27:27)
which we all experience. It's right now, yeah, which is why I booked this now, because yeah. You can tell my energy is really low actually, can't you? What do I do right now?
Fliss (27:29)
is actually right about now. Literally as we're recording this, yeah.
What do you normally do then Gina? Give us a demonstration. Yeah,
you fill in the post lunch slump, what happens?
Gina Buckle (27:49)
So I will look at what I'm doing and I'll say, okay, is there a way can do this tomorrow instead? Because that means, yeah, I've actually got to go, I'm really sorry. And sometimes I can, but if doing that makes tomorrow not fun for me, then I won't do it. So it's just making decisions that like aren't just really like spur of the moment, I'm gonna go crazy and just like.
Fliss (27:54)
I'm getting pinned off.
Hmm.
Gina Buckle (28:17)
torch my business and spend all day watching poor Ione and hash browns, which is what we all want to be doing with our days. But then would I then wake up tomorrow and be like, oh my word, I have so much to do. Like that's not fun is for every, I'm not creating fun for myself every day. So yeah, it's just finding that balance between doing things that I know are gonna make it easier for future me to enjoy herself, but also really listening to what current me wants.
Fliss (28:23)
It's a dream, isn't it? Yeah, yeah.
Gina Buckle (28:45)
And if she wants to go for a swim, we go for a swim. If we want to read a book, just stop. I just make a point of looking at my workload and what I've got coming up the rest of the week, but also listening to what I actually want to do in that moment.
Fliss (29:01)
I want to know more about this because I actually find it is really hard to be at half past three on a Monday and feeling that slump and go, you know what, I'm gonna do something else. That's really hard when you're your own business. Do you try and check in with yourself every day to make it a regular thing? How do you actually make that happen, Gina? Because it's probably well saying it.
Gina Buckle (29:05)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, yes, I say a lot of things all the time, you should know that about me. So one thing I decided I think at the start of this year was that I was sick of procrastinating, like we all do it, scrolling on our phones when we should be doing something else. And I decided I was just really sick of getting to the end of the day being like, I've not done what I wanted to do, but I've also not rested either. So I've now decided I have two modes. I'm either working or I'm resting.
Fliss (29:35)
Hmm.
Hmm.
Gina Buckle (29:53)
So if I find myself procrastinating, I ask myself, am I procrastinating because I'm just being lazy or am I procrastinating because I need to rest right now? So I've got to pick one of those things. I can't procrastinate. I've got to either stop and go and do something else or put my phone down, throw it across the room and get back to it. So can't do, we can't be in the middle. Got to do one or the other.
Fliss (30:16)
I love that. ⁓ Wow, I bet that takes some practice to do, but I can imagine it's got huge benefits.
Gina Buckle (30:18)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
yeah. Yeah. And just because I don't, I like resting and there's lots of things that I can do to like recharge my batteries, but scrolling on my phone is not one of them. And it's just this weird like limbo in between that I just feel like it's such a waste of my time. so yeah, I just need to pick which one I want to do. I also got this really good tip from, she's called Vicky Owens and she runs
Fliss (30:38)
Mm.
Mm.
Gina Buckle (30:54)
a social media agency and she has this thing where she sets hourly alarms for herself. It sounds really insane but it works because I've been doing it. And the hourly alarm says is this what higher Gina or higher Fliss would be doing. So like the highest version of myself, the version of myself that like has all the things I want, has a business that I have always wanted, is this what she'd be doing right now with her time. ⁓ And a lot of the time I find myself going how dare you.
Leave me alone alarm. That's rude and invasive, but a lot of the time it does make me go. Okay. No, let's stop Let's put my phone down or let's focus on something else because this isn't working
Fliss (31:33)
That's bloody amazing advice. my god. Yeah, because you can't ignore an alarm if you do it, it happens. I am, that is, yeah, that has blown my mind, Gina, you've blown my mind. ⁓ So are there any other like little habits or boundaries or rituals or things that keep things light and enjoyable for you?
Gina Buckle (31:34)
It's good advice, very good advice.
No.
Ooh, exercise for sure. ⁓ I like, I've just, it's from trial and error and years of not like prioritising exercise that I know if I don't exercise I will feel like rubbish for rest of the day. I also like to meditate for 10 minutes in the morning ⁓ and then journal as well. So I'll write just like a page of continuous thoughts but then I'll also write
Fliss (31:55)
Hmm, yeah.
Gina Buckle (32:20)
I'll title it Thoughts and Reflections about Me and My Business. And I got this tip from another podcast. I cannot remember the name of the guest, it's Rochelle Humes' podcast. ⁓ What's it called? Ready to Launch. It's like something launch. remember what it's called. ⁓ But this guest she had on said, when you write beliefs about yourself down on paper,
Fliss (32:34)
Hmm
Gina Buckle (32:44)
If they're not nice, so there will be days where I want to write down, I'm not very good at this or I can't do this. I don't have the stamina to do this anymore. You then write down underneath, say it nicer. And then you rewrite it again in a way that is kinder to yourself. And if it's still not very kind, you do it again, say it nicer. And you keep going until you get a statement that you feel really like empowered by and that is gonna...
keep me going through the rest of the day. So that's something I like to do in the mornings as well when I can. ⁓ And it's really annoying. All the good advice is really like, it's the advice that everybody gives. It's exercise, take time to empty your brain and then take time to like get your thoughts down on paper. And it's so annoying because every time I do them and then I start to feel better, I'm like, I don't need these anymore. I think I'm good.
Fliss (33:35)
Yes, yes.
Gina Buckle (33:37)
I'm good now, they did their job, but it's something you need to do consistently in order to feel the consistent benefits of it. And every time I'm like, wow, this works, exercise works, who knew? People need to be talking about this. Exercise can make you feel better. When actually it's people who've been talking about it for years now. ⁓ So yeah, sounds... No, go on.
Fliss (33:54)
But it's easy, isn't it
easy to like, you let those things slip because you de-prioritise yourself often in your business, don't you? So that's why that happens.
Gina Buckle (34:00)
Yes, yeah, 100%, 100%. But
yeah, I've learned kind of the hard way what happens when you deprioritise yourself for a long period of time and it's not worth it. It's not worth it. Yep. Oh yeah.
Fliss (34:14)
You and me both, you and me both. But
interestingly, last year when I was putting a lot time on myself after my insomnia and burning out, I started meditating. That's like mindfulness. I say mindfulness every morning. That really helped get over my insomnia and also journaling. Journaling about life and business. And I've really found that journaling about business is so...
Gina Buckle (34:20)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Fliss (34:40)
useful, especially when I've got lots going around my head because it helps to empty your mind doesn't it and helps you to there's something about writing down things down that helps you to process your thoughts a lot better which we don't do and I always tell my clients to do it and I didn't really do it for myself until until last year but yeah it's got such a I think that's the thing and try and do these regularly but if you jump if you fall off the bandwagon
Gina Buckle (34:50)
Mm-hmm. No.
you
Fliss (35:09)
jumping back on it. That's something I've learnt. I personally have learnt a lot this year from Alice Benham. She talks about bounce back rate is greater than consistency, meaning you will fall off the bounce back and it happens to us all. But if you can get back on it in some way, that's much better for you. Just trying to make yourself do it, isn't it?
Gina Buckle (35:18)
Yeah. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah, but also, yeah, like you say, not being so hard on yourself when you don't, when you're not consistent with it. Like I feel like this with my own content a lot of the time. Like if I, I think we talked about this recently, I went away for a week and didn't schedule anything. I didn't do my newsletter and I came back and I just felt like there's not really an excuse for that. Like I should, I should be better. I should do better. And I said to you, I feel like I've got two options. I can either commit to being consistent and do that no matter what.
or I can work through the anxiety that comes from not being visible all the time. And you were like, I think maybe the second one. I think that's probably what we should focus on instead. ⁓
Fliss (36:00)
Yes.
Yeah,
yeah, I probably also asked you what do you mean by should? Yeah, because you do feel that guilt though, don't you, for doing these things, but who's created that guilt? Not you, not Gina.
Gina Buckle (36:08)
Yeah, Yes, you absolutely did. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
No,
yeah, who's gonna tell me off? Who would dare tell me off? Thank you.
Fliss (36:25)
I would not dare, I would absolutely not dare. She'd just roast me.
Right, yeah, we could go on for hours about that. So you've rebranded. Are there any decisions you've made recently or since you rebranded that felt easier because of the work you did on your brand?
Gina Buckle (36:52)
everything, every single thing about my rebrand was easier. Once I had the blueprint, like I went to Jen Ruffles, who did my logo and my visual designs. And we did the like, ⁓ discovery process. And I basically went, here you go. Here's everything. She went, fantastic. That cuts my list of questions in half. ⁓ Because it's all there already. And then when I went to Emma Ratcliffe and got my ⁓
brand photography done, she did such a good job. Again, it was like, here's the brand blueprint, here's my visual guidelines. She's like, brilliant, I know exactly what we need to do now and I know exactly how this needs to look. And then when I went to ⁓ Leanne from the Soulful, no, Flowstate office, she's rebranded. Again, it was just like, they just stacked on top of one another, but none of those conversations would have been as easy if I didn't have the brand blueprint to start with. And then when I worked with Naomi, there's another one as well.
Fliss (37:44)
Hmm.
Gina Buckle (37:47)
⁓ Naomi from Howdy Designs, think her name is, can't, that's really bad. She did my website and again, was just like, yeah, it just makes everything so much easier. ⁓ Yeah.
Fliss (38:00)
Yeah.
What about this year you've launched your Neld in a day service? How's working on your band really? Obviously, I mean, you do is fun, but how has it made that kind of developing new services easier?
Gina Buckle (38:05)
⁓ yes!
Well, because I know my customer so clearly now and I know what they want. know what their pain points are. I know what the challenges are. So when it comes to designing new services, I just know what they need. And I don't get it right all the time. think a lot of businesses don't like there's a lot of testing that goes on a lot of trying different things. But more importantly, I know how I need to talk about it in a way that makes them go, ⁓ yeah, hang on. That sounds like me or.
Fliss (38:19)
Mm.
Gina Buckle (38:42)
that's where I want to be and again that's just made so much easier when I have this like foundation to go off. ⁓ Yeah it just touches every part of what I do ⁓ and it just streamlines everything. When you go into it knowing what you're doing, who you're speaking to and why you should be the person speaking to that person about this problem, makes everything easy. Not everything but most things.
Fliss (39:05)
Yeah, yeah, really does.
Yeah, still some difficulties, but yeah. You get a good accountant, get a good accountant for that. ⁓ So what's the biggest barrier to somebody embracing fun in their business and brand voice? Do you think?
Gina Buckle (39:10)
Doesn't make my taxes easier, but it the branding and marketing easier.
Very true, very true.
⁓ I think, I mean, I've referred to it already, but I think it is just this filter we all put on ourselves. Like I only worked in like a, I'm using inverted commas here, corporate job for a year. And I feel like I'm still unlearning like the professional filter and like the professional side of myself. ⁓ And I think we all do it. ⁓ And it's just this.
this weird like internal battle I think we have whenever we go to write something or say something of this is what I want to say but this is how feel like people want to hear it or this is I a lot of the time I know I do and a lot of people I speak to as well they have a specific person in mind that they come across who would just turn their nose up at what they've said ⁓ or be a bit like well that's not very it's not very professional like yeah it's not like I'm a person I'm not a big corpora I don't want to sound like a big corpora ⁓
Fliss (40:07)
Hmm.
Gina Buckle (40:20)
And I think, again, I was only at work for a year, so I don't know how people who've been in corporate services for 20, 25 years, how people then navigate away from that. I still, it's a lot quieter now, but I still have that voice in my head that's like, ooh, should you be saying that on LinkedIn? Or like with my newsletter in particular, my newsletter's so stupid. And a lot of the time I'm like, can I say this in my newsletter?
Is this allowed? But then I remember, oh actually no one's gonna say, no one's gonna tell me off. There's no set way of doing this. I know how I want business to feel and I feel like this is the right thing to do right now. So that's what I should be, that's the only should I should be listening to is what I want to do.
Fliss (41:07)
Yeah.
Yeah. You don't have a legal department. And Aldi tweeted, was it last week or the week before or something? And they, they put something out and then it was on threads or I don't know, whatever the other one is called, says. It said something about, the legal, can you tell that legal are on holiday this week? Cause it obviously said something controversial and it's just thing is really funny. Like doing things like that, but you don't have a legal department. you could, it hit me.
Gina Buckle (41:10)
laughs
That's a no-
Yeah.
True,
true. That's very true. But it's still the same filter that stops a lot of other like solopreneurs and small businesses. just think, people think that being taken seriously means sounding like a big business when actually big businesses spend a lot of money trying to sound like people and small businesses. So what are we doing?
Fliss (41:35)
say anything.
Yeah.
amazing thing to hear actually. I've got one more question for you actually that's come to mind. at the minute I'm trying to, I've just canned all my content. I thought I've come up with a load of content and was like no, no, no, I'm canning that because it doesn't feel real and like me. So what I thought was instead I'll experiment and I'll make myself post.
Gina Buckle (41:59)
No thanks.
Fliss (42:15)
every day, maybe not weekends, every day this month and it's just got to be natural and real and that seems quite fun to me because I'm just winging it. Do you think experimenting in your business brings a bit of fun in as well?
Gina Buckle (42:25)
Mm-hmm.
100%, 100%, because you don't, like, when you, when it comes to experimenting, you are trying to fail or you're trying to get the most useful data possible. And failure is some of the most valuable data you can get about what you're doing. So when you look at things and you think about things in your business as like experimentation, I think it takes away that fear of failure somewhat. And I used to, my,
Fliss (42:56)
Mmm, yeah.
Gina Buckle (42:58)
Definition of failure has changed because I used to think that Failure meant the entire business went down But actually failure means a post didn't do so well or service hasn't sold as much as I thought it would and So as soon as I started looking at things like that, was like, this there's information about failure Everywhere in my business that I can be using I don't just have to wait for like who copy to go down completely And that's that's what
That's what Nailed in a Day came from this new service that I've been offering. It came from looking at other things which hadn't been selling how I expected and thinking, okay, so is it that I've got the pain point that I'm trying to serve wrong? Is that actually a serious pain point for the customer? Is it the price point? Like it just, yeah, it just makes you so much more analytical about like the data that you're getting in from what you're doing and how it's affecting.
Fliss (43:32)
Hmm.
Gina Buckle (43:52)
what's important to you. Because it's not all about likes. It's not all about likes and open rates and clicks or whatever.
Fliss (43:54)
Yeah.
No, like this month I'm tracking how my content feels to me, which is like an amazing thing to track, but we don't often track these things, but that's so important for actually creating it. Cause if I hated it, I just don't bother. yeah. I also think like, is a very creative thing, isn't it? Like creatives are used to failing. I've got friends who are in non-creative careers and like,
Gina Buckle (44:01)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
yeah, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Fliss (44:25)
or you can't, you know, one of my friends is a nurse and she once said to me about like knitting or something outside of work and she was like, I don't start it because what if I fail at it? I'm like, it's creative. You won't, you can't fail. You can't fail. You redo it.
Gina Buckle (44:29)
Good.
Yeah,
Absolutely, I suppose if you are a nurse, maybe don't try to fail. ⁓ No, don't fail. Don't fail. ⁓ But my so my dad, he was an engineer, he's in the Navy for years, and he works in corporate now. ⁓ And when I first told him about who copy and what I wanted to do, you know, kind of looking for similar validation I got from my sister, he went, well, if it's going to fail,
Fliss (44:44)
I mean, yeah, you can't fail in her job. Yeah, yeah, don't fail.
Gina Buckle (45:05)
fell fast. And I was like, sorry, you think it's gonna fail? And that's not what he was saying at all. I know that now. was just, I think it was just his engineering brain being like, get the information you need, test it, keep going. So yeah, think creatives are good at failure, but yeah, I think it's non-creative. My dad's still creative, but like math brained people are still good at failure as well, for sure.
Fliss (45:16)
Test and iterate, yeah. ⁓
Yeah, creative jobs, yeah.
But I do think creatives often have, in our own business, we're not so willing to test that creativity. But I know from, like, I develop services, like, I'm say, I'm doing this, do you want to join as I beat around? And then I create it as I'm doing, that's testing and changing as I go. And it works really well. So I might take away your dad's advice to test and iterate. I think.
Gina Buckle (45:32)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
So I've been on this,
I've been talking on this podcast for like an hour and you're gonna take my dad's advice after. Just get him on the podcast, I'm gonna say.
Fliss (45:56)
Yeah, yeah,
I am. ⁓ No, I have taken so much from this. What I am going to take actually, Gina, is your maybe setting an alarm, but the whole, like, if I'm procrastinating, which sometimes I do, yeah, either do I need to rest? Because I'm not very, I never used to be very good at saying, actually, I'm not gonna.
Gina Buckle (46:10)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Fliss (46:23)
do this this afternoon because I'm not feeling well or whatever. So I think actually having those two benchmarks is probably what I'm going to definitely take away actually. It's excellent advice. also thanks to, thanks for Kieran's, also thanks to Gina's dad. So before we finish up Gina, because you're probably raging at me right now for bringing your dad into it.
Gina Buckle (46:31)
nice ⁓ good well it was vicki it was vicki owens wasn't me it wasn't my idea
Furious,
furious.
Fliss (46:52)
Yeah,
I would love to know what in your experience is the biggest barrier to somebody doing things their own
Gina Buckle (47:01)
⁓ I think it's just that the mindset that I need to sound like a professional. ⁓ You don't need to sound like a professional. People don't want to work with professionals, they want to work with people. They want to work with people who are good at their job, absolutely, but that doesn't mean you can't have fun and be funny and have a personality.
Fliss (47:22)
Yeah, yeah. And it's like there's so many different definitions of fun. ⁓ Like it's whatever yours is, isn't it? Yeah.
Gina Buckle (47:27)
Mm-hmm. ⁓ yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you just gotta find it
and then commit to doing it.
Fliss (47:34)
doing it, doing So what's one thing that's really helped you to do your thing, Gina?
Gina Buckle (47:35)
to it.
⁓ It's gonna sound really cliche, but the people around me. ⁓ The community, both the community that I found in the blueprint in your community, but also Northern Affinity ⁓ and my friends and family, my poor, brave boyfriend who...
Most weeks I go, should I put this in my newsletter? Is this silly? Is it? What do think of this? And he goes, yes, it's, it's good. Send it. Um, and just having people to bounce ideas off with, um, and to, can, cause when it is just you and your business, it can get really, really lonely. And so having a group of people that feel like your team kind of to be like, is this mental? Should I do this? Yes or no? What do we think of this? Um, and.
Like I think Gemma said it the other day, because I think I asked you for some advice on something and you gave it to me and it was perfect. I was like, right, you're also wise. How are you all so good at this? And Gemma was like, it's because it's not our own businesses. That's why we can do it really quickly. And yeah, you just need people around you who get it, who understand what you're going through and have genuinely have your best interests at heart as well. There's not an ounce of competition in the blueprint community, in the honest boat community.
Fliss (48:45)
Yeah. Yes.
Gina Buckle (49:00)
It's just people genuinely wanting to help each other and that's what you need. That's the best tool. Not that my friends and the people around me are tools, but it's the thing I would recommend ⁓ finding if you're looking for that kind of support. my gosh.
Fliss (49:12)
You ⁓
That's really nice, do they?
Yeah, I think there's not a month goes by where we don't have a message from Gina going, this is a bad idea. And I think that's, know, people to egg you on a little bit, that's what you need.
Gina Buckle (49:25)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. People are going, no, that's a great idea. You should absolutely do that. Right. Cool. Yeah.
Fliss (49:34)
Yes.
Yeah. Surround yourself with more people like that.
Gina Buckle (49:38)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But also not yes people,
not people who are just gonna go, yeah sure, sounds great. Like people who are gonna properly listen to what you've said and give their honest opinion as well. Very important.
Fliss (49:44)
yeah.
sometimes question the magnus, also encourage it a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I think that's an amazing place to end, Gina If people have listened to you and thought, God, this woman sounds so wise. Where can I find more of her wise words? Where can people find you?
Gina Buckle (49:51)
Yes, yes, yeah, yeah.
So I'm on Instagram, Gina, @Gina.HootCopy. And then I'm on LinkedIn as well, Gina Buckle. I have a website filled with silly things called, well it's hootcopy.com, that's kind of obvious. And you can sign up for my newsletter through my website as well, so you get lots of silly things on a weekly basis. ⁓ Yeah, I think that's kind of everywhere. Other than coming to my home, which I don't encourage that you do, that's the best places to find me, I think.
Thank you so much for having me, this has been so fun. Thank you.
Fliss (50:36)
Thanks Gina.
No worries,
I've thoroughly enjoyed this chat. Thank you so much for coming.
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