“Life's too short. Just do what you want to do and don't worry about how you're perceived” with Rich Carter
Do your thing · Episode 9 · Hosted by Fliss Lee
From graphic designer to sign painter, and learning to take yourself seriously as a business owner
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What if running your own business meant letting go of everything you’d learned about how you’re supposed to work?
In this episode, I’m joined by Rich Carter, founder of Rich C Studio, graphic designer and sign painter.
Since becoming self-employed, Rich has had to unlearn a lot of the rules and habits he picked up from employment, from feeling like he needed to be at his desk nine to five, to waiting for permission to do things differently.
We talk about the shift from thinking of yourself as “just a freelancer” to taking yourself seriously as a business owner, being the boss you actually want to work for, and giving yourself permission to build a creative business around the way you want to work.
We also get into Rich’s move into sign painting, why he stopped worrying about whether he should call himself a graphic designer or a sign painter, and what happened when he stopped looking to other people for validation and started doing more of what he actually enjoys.
What you’ll learn in this episode:
How to unlearn some of the rules you bring with you from employment
Why seeing yourself as a business, rather than “just a freelancer”, can change the way you work
How giving yourself permission to explore what you enjoy can shape a business that works for you
Listen to the episode
Find it on your chosen podcast player here.
About Rich Carter
Rich is the founder of Rich C Studio, an independent design and sign painting studio specialising in distinctive brand identities and hand-painted signage for independent businesses.
Working from his garden studio, Rich blends traditional signwriting with modern graphic design to create bold logos and characterful shopfronts that help businesses stand out and feel proud of their space.
Through honest craftsmanship and a DIY spirit, he partners with ambitious shops, start-ups and local businesses who want their brand to feel as human as the people behind it.
Mentioned in this episode
Rich talks about learning to set better boundaries in his business and recommends Set Boundaries, Find Peace by Nedra Glover Tawwab.
Connect with, and follow Rich
Connect with Rich on LinkedIn
You might also like
If the freelancer-to-business-owner conversation resonates, listen to my conversation with Sophie Cross too, where we talk about why freelancers need to start taking themselves seriously as businesses.
Support the podcast
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Want to be a guest?
Got a story or experience that could help other founders, freelancers or creative folk do things their own way? You can pitch to be a guest on Do your thing here.
Chapters
00:00 – Meet Rich Carter
[early timestamp] – Making a big career decision from a hammock
[timestamp] – When graphic design stopped feeling right
16:47 – Taking the leap into self-employment
18:20 – From ‘just a freelancer’ to business owner
20:59 – What changes when you start taking yourself seriously
24:24 – What Dave Grohl taught Rich about business names
25:29 – Graphic designer or sign painter?
26:12 – Stop worrying about what to call yourself
[timestamp] – How Rich got into sign painting
32:39 – Why sign painting feels so human
34:01 – Building a reputation through word of mouth
34:54 – Realising he doesn't want to sit at a desk all day
35:59 – Unlearning the nine-to-five
[timestamp] – Becoming the mentor he wished he'd had
44:55 – When having no boundaries catches up with you
47:16 – Rethinking the Rich C Studio brand
[timestamp] – What Rich has learned about building a business his way
Transcript
Fliss Lee (00:00)
Hi Rich, it's so good to have you here today. Could you introduce yourself and let everyone know what you do?
Rich Carter (00:07)
Yeah, hello everyone. I'm Rich. I'm a graphic designer and now sign painter based in Froome Somerset. And yeah, I work with small independent businesses doing brand identity and sign painting.
Fliss Lee (00:23)
I mean there'll be a lot of people listening going, oh my god that's really cool, right now. Where did you first get interested in sign painting?
Rich Carter (00:33)
so as a kid, I kind of trail it back to as a kid, my dad used to do banger racing. So most months me and my brother would be going down to Cheddar to a banger racing track to watch my dad race around and smash into other cars. And
Fliss Lee (00:54)
Wow.
Rich Carter (00:54)
his car, well, all cars were painted, but obviously I thought my dad's was.
the best. his was
Fliss Lee (01:02)
Yes.
Rich Carter (01:02)
always adorned with like stars and stripes and he would just paint it absolutely beautifully. So I think that's where my love of sort of handwritten signage and lettering started from.
Fliss Lee (01:16)
Mmm.
Rich Carter (01:19)
And yeah, he just used to let me and my brother Luke write on his car. So I think it started from there and I would always just look up.
to see old buildings and the ghost signs in like, because I used to live in Bath, so Bath was full
Fliss Lee (01:35)
Mm-hmm.
Rich Carter (01:36)
of them. yeah, it's kind of always with like been with me. But yeah, I think it started from a young age on the banger race and track.
Fliss Lee (01:47)
Wow, and so you obviously are graphic designer as well as a sign painter. Do you think it influenced you wanting to become a graphic designer?
Rich Carter (01:58)
Ah, yeah. So being a graphic designer, was never, it never really clicked with me for some reason that I
Fliss Lee (02:07)
Mmm.
Rich Carter (02:09)
wasn't ever happy. I fell into the corporate designs side of things and
Fliss Lee (02:16)
Mm-hmm.
Rich Carter (02:17)
it just wasn't that freeing and creative enough for me. So,
Fliss Lee (02:21)
Mm-hmm.
Rich Carter (02:21)
there was always that itch. So I would always be like sketching and writing in my own little sketchbooks.
And I think it was just before the pandemic I thought I'm going to start practicing painting and I got my first lot of enamels and yeah, I just discovered how difficult it actually is.
Fliss Lee (02:42)
Hahahaha
Rich Carter (02:44)
Yeah, I just thought how hard can it be? But yeah.
Fliss Lee (02:48)
Yeah.
Rich Carter (02:49)
it turns out there was a bit of a knack to it.
yeah, I worked with a sign painter who taught me the ropes.
Fliss Lee (03:00)
Oh wow, what is it that you actually love about sign painting?
Rich Carter (03:04)
It doesn't have to be perfect. for me,
Fliss Lee (03:07)
Mmm.
Rich Carter (03:09)
coming through design studios where everything has to be pixel perfect, there was like a large part of me that used to be quite frustrated. I was quite a frustrated designer.
Fliss Lee (03:22)
You
Rich Carter (03:23)
So I would have managers over my shoulder saying, can you just move that a pixel? It's like, really?
And yeah, I'd have to zoom in like a thousand percent and no one, if it's printed, no one sees that. But for some studios, it was a big deal. And at the back of my mind, it's always been like, that's not fun. But design
Fliss Lee (03:47)
Mm. Mm.
Rich Carter (03:49)
should be fun. And just seeing things with a funny message out on the street that isn't written perfectly, but it's got life to it.
That for me is what draws me to sign painting because, you know, there are sign painters out there who can paint as well as a typeface. But when you see a sign and it's not perfect, but you
Fliss Lee (04:16)
Hmm.
Rich Carter (04:16)
can tell it's been done by hand and that business has, it just brings warmth to a business. So, yeah, for me, it's all about the character, the...
Fliss Lee (04:28)
Mm.
Rich Carter (04:30)
you know, using the human hand behind everything. We're quite digital these days, especially with AI. So,
Fliss Lee (04:37)
Mm-hmm.
Rich Carter (04:38)
yeah, I'm all about the imperfect. for me, that's perfect. Because, yeah, sometimes I can just, you know, it doesn't look spot on sometimes, but most of the time the client actually wants that. Yeah. So
Fliss Lee (04:54)
Yeah, that's why they choose it.
Rich Carter (04:57)
that's what draws me really is.
It's still pressure because it obviously has to look a certain standard, but it doesn't have to be pixel perfect, which was a real turn off for me.
Fliss Lee (05:10)
Yeah, that's really interesting. think a lot of people kind of, maybe speaking from my own experience here, lot of people fall into graphic design when they're creative, don't they?
So how
Rich Carter (05:23)
Hmm
Fliss Lee (05:23)
did you before sign painting became your thing, how did you get into graphic design?
Rich Carter (05:29)
So you just described exactly what happened to me. So
Fliss Lee (05:35)
Mmm.
Rich Carter (05:37)
I used to work in the civil service for probably six years. So it was all admin. You had to work a certain way, almost
Fliss Lee (05:49)
Mmm.
Rich Carter (05:50)
conditioned to sit at a desk. And every
you know, every letter was a template. So there was no creativity whatsoever. And at that stage, I would try and bring a little bit of creativity into my day. It sounds really crap looking back, but just changing like the letterhead just slightly. I know I've had some control over it.
Fliss Lee (06:18)
done something there. Yeah.
Rich Carter (06:19)
So I was there for probably six years, I think. And then we were all made redundant. And
I did the thing that most young people do and go, I'm going to go traveling. had
Fliss Lee (06:31)
yeah, yeah.
Rich Carter (06:31)
like a payout and this sounds quite kind of exotic and cool, but it wasn't like this at all. I was on a beach in a hammock and I told you it was saying quite a good story,
Fliss Lee (06:42)
No, okay. Love that.
Rich Carter (06:46)
but it didn't feel like it at the time. But looking back, it's kind of a cool story. Yeah, I was just on this beach lying in a hammock and like dozing.
And just the thought came to me, it was like, I got to be creative. I want to do design. I need to go and learn graphic design. And that was it for me. I thought that was the whole spectrum. It was graphic design. So I came back and another, I basically fell back into the civil service again. But all the time I was like, I can't stay here again. So
Fliss Lee (07:23)
Mm-hmm.
Rich Carter (07:24)
I left.
I applied to become a mature student and went to uni with all these 18 year olds. I was like the oldest one in the class, but I had a mission and I needed to, I couldn't work like that for the rest of my life. So yeah, I kind of trained graphic design and yeah, started my way in the industry.
Fliss Lee (07:54)
mean, that in itself, going into going from civil servant to graphic designers of the chore, you know, as a mature student in itself is quite a massive change, isn't it? Like, how did you find that shift into the creative world from a very non creative world?
Rich Carter (08:13)
So yeah, was a super scary move, but it needed to be done for me personally. And funny enough, the move wasn't that different. So before,
when I was applying, was like, it's going to be the creative industry. There's going to be ping pong tables. There's going to be bikes on the wall, that whole
Fliss Lee (08:37)
Mm-hmm.
Rich Carter (08:37)
graphic design cliche.
part of me thought, yeah, I'm going to love this and I'm not going to work another day. Is that horrible quote? You know the one.
Fliss Lee (08:49)
That one, yes. Yeah.
Rich Carter (08:51)
And I thought, oh, that's me. I'm going to be working with people. We're going to be making stuff every day. I don't I'm not going to name many names, but I think I just got really unlucky with the places I fell into. And so coming from
a really conditioned workplace like the civil service. The studios I worked in, they were kind of the same, but they were delivering creative work rather than just admin. But
Fliss Lee (09:24)
Mm-hmm.
Rich Carter (09:24)
everything was again templated. And I've been doing a bit of work recently, kind of looking back since you asked me on this podcast.
at my kind of career. And I kind of got a bit sad thinking about my younger self because I
Fliss Lee (09:46)
Hmm.
Rich Carter (09:47)
was thinking when I applied for uni, what did I want? And I just wanted to be kind of mentored and taught. And I had that uni, but in my early studios, or no, all of my studios, I hadn't had that mentor that I craved. So there was a lot of...
kind of gatekeeping secrecy that it wasn't open, which is why I'm doing my thing today. I just didn't get it in a work environment.
Fliss Lee (10:22)
Yeah, was thinking I was going to ask you what you kind of learned about the world of work from, I guess, your two previous lives, your civil service and your graphic design employment. What kind of did you learn that you thought when you went self-employed you went, right, this is not happening.
Rich Carter (10:45)
So, okay, the first, it wasn't all bad. One employer in particular had such brilliant client management skills. And I was there for a number of years that has been fully implemented in my own business. So there's
Fliss Lee (11:05)
Mmm, nice.
Rich Carter (11:06)
one thing I can say I do really, really well. It's filing.
Like my projects are set up very well. So that's one thing that I've definitely took from employment. I run my business like it is a business.
Fliss Lee (11:25)
be organized.
Rich Carter (11:27)
Yeah, so when I'm talking to people, I talk to them like a friend, like a mate. But backstage, my filing is on point.
Fliss Lee (11:38)
Yes, it's my hair's fat. I am the same.
Rich Carter (11:41)
But one downside of that, which we were talking a moment ago about before coming on, is I felt kind of conditioned by a lot of these employments and I'm only coming out of that now and I'm in my fifth year. I don't even call it freelancing anymore. I call it running my business because for so long, when I say
Yeah, I'm a freelancer. really, it doesn't dumb down my offer, but it definitely degrades my own confidence. And
Fliss Lee (12:17)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Rich Carter (12:19)
when I talk about money with clients, so I talk about it from a business perspective now, but going back to feeling conditioned, I say I'm coming out of it now because I'm putting less pressure on myself.
But from day one of starting on my own, I would be like, I need to be at my desk at nine o'clock. I will work till five o'clock. And it was just so regimented. And I thought, am I still in the civil service? And you know, that self-talk, it'd be like, every single manager I've had up to this stage, it's like they're talking to me. So I would be like, no, no, no, just let me reply to this email.
And I wasn't actually running my business as me. It was
Fliss Lee (13:11)
Hmm.
Rich Carter (13:12)
a lot of learnt behaviour that five years later, I can honestly say I'm finally shedding now.
Fliss Lee (13:20)
It's shedding.
Rich Carter (13:22)
this year has been the one that I feel is properly a good year that I've made a change, basically.
Fliss Lee (13:31)
Yeah, there comes a point doesn't there when you start to see that mindset shift. But I mean, that's why this podcast exists. Like it's for me to like speak to people who've taught me and me to learn from other people because I'm myself going through that shift and it's a constant, I think it is constant learning curve of like habits and they do creep in again, isn't it? And it's like, yeah, trying to change that mindset, which is really, yeah, really difficult when you've been employed for so long.
Rich Carter (14:02)
It really is, and especially in some places where they are so tightly managed or tightly run, where everyone,
Fliss Lee (14:09)
Yeah.
Rich Carter (14:10)
you know, you have to kind of justify what you're doing. So even when I'm out there working on something, I'm like, OK, this chunk of time is devoted to this. yeah, I'm a bit less, I'm a bit more relaxed these days.
Fliss Lee (14:29)
Yeah, I think it must be hard for creative businesses because you have to be commercial and you are trying to manage a lot of creatives and us creatives like to go, don't want to do that today, I'm going to do something else, which must be really hard, but it can really impact your creativity, can't it? Did you find that, I mean, what was your reason for choosing to go self-employed from employment?
Rich Carter (14:55)
So I'll be honest, my working in all of these places, it really affected my confidence. And yeah, so I was kind of micromanaged quite a lot. Everything was templated and I would be like a mid-weight designer pushing on.
like a high end, whatever these labels mean. They don't mean anything to me now. But back in the day, was like I was a mid-weight designer. even if I was just formatting a one-page A4 flyer, it would need to be sent to a senior designer. And then they would send it back to me to make changes. And then it go back to a senior designer and then the managing director.
It just come back of all of these comments and like I was saying earlier about sort of, you move this like half a mil? And it just eroded my confidence. And I ended up moving into a studio. This is just out of the pandemic, which promised a lot of brand experience. And it was just, it was just a place which, yeah, fired lots of work at you.
without any real direction and my confidence was just absolutely shot. So, yeah, it took one day. I came home and my wife was just like, I've never seen you this unhappy. Like, I think you need to just either leave graphic design or just go out on your own. And she was pregnant with our second child at the time. And I was
Fliss Lee (16:45)
Wow, wow.
Rich Carter (16:47)
like, this isn't...
the best time and it was January
Fliss Lee (16:51)
Heh.
Rich Carter (16:51)
as well and she just grabbed me and she's just like, no, you need to do this. Like, I've not seen you so like unhappy. Please just do it. So I had one client and yeah, and I just thought if I don't do it now, then yeah, I'll never do it. And I probably would have left design if I'm being honest with you.
Fliss Lee (17:17)
Wow,
wow.
Rich Carter (17:19)
Yeah, it was that bad.
Fliss Lee (17:21)
I feel like behind a lot of self-employed people, there's partners or family members who are incredibly supportive and sometimes are the people who give you that shove. She obviously
Rich Carter (17:33)
Yeah.
Fliss Lee (17:33)
had faith in you that you could do it if she suggested it when she was pregnant.
Rich Carter (17:40)
Exactly, no, she's amazing. yeah, I know wouldn't have done that on my own. So the fact, yeah, she gave me that kick. Yeah, I can't thank her enough.
Fliss Lee (17:52)
well,
that
Rich Carter (17:53)
You
Fliss Lee (17:54)
is wonderful. So you've already said you don't see yourself as a freelancer anymore. I'd love to ask you about, obviously you said you started freelancing. When did that kind of mindset shift happen or how did you think, can't be a freelancer anymore, I want it to be a business?
Rich Carter (18:20)
It's been building over years,
Fliss Lee (18:25)
Yeah.
Rich Carter (18:26)
working as a freelancer. There's kind of like an unwritten thing. I've learned the hard way that, yeah, as a freelancer, you're kind of seen as, like, not a pushover because that comes from your own...
boundaries and your own processes, which again, I've definitely got nailed down now. But it was just, it was for me personally, how I, I think, thinking back now, I liked to push it on the client that, they're not treating me with respect because I'm just a freelancer. But if I'm being brutally honest with myself, I think it was...
in my head as well, I had that thought that,
Fliss Lee (19:15)
Interesting.
Rich Carter (19:18)
I'm just a freelancer. They're the one running a business. I'm just, you know, almost doing a hobby kind of thing. Because you know you hear that if you do something that you enjoy, it's just like a hobby. And it got to a stage where I was my own worst enemy. was
Fliss Lee (19:33)
you
Rich Carter (19:33)
the one calling myself a freelancer. And I just thought, you know what? No.
At the end of the day, I'm paying a mortgage. I've got two children. I've got a wife. need to... This isn't just feast of famine.
Fliss Lee (19:50)
Mm.
Rich Carter (19:52)
I need to start taking it seriously. And yeah, you get to the end of each month and it was like, that horrible feeling in your stomach of like, I hope that person pays me because I'm in a bit of trouble if they don't. And I did that for...
Longer than I want to admit.
Fliss Lee (20:13)
Yes, we are. We all do. I think
you said you used a word which I just want to have a brief touch on. You said, I'm just a freelancer. And I think I
Rich Carter (20:25)
Mmm.
Fliss Lee (20:25)
hear a lot of creatives use that word.
I kind of think.
Over the years, maybe in the past, society has almost diminished creative work because
Rich Carter (20:37)
Yeah.
Fliss Lee (20:37)
it's just creative, it's a hobby and actually a lot of us creatives get into it because it's what we love doing, you know. But I think I've really seen an impact on people's own self-belief because we go, I'm just a freelancer, I'm just a designer. So it's really interesting that you use that when you're talking about that mindset shift.
Rich Carter (20:59)
Yeah, yeah, and that's definitely something I've got stronger with over the last year. Because I do catch, or I did catch myself saying just, I'm just a freelancer. Or even a client would say, can you just do this as well? And me a year ago would be like, yeah, yeah, definitely. But now it's like, that changes the brief.
So having this change for me impacts the way I actually work as well. So it's impacted my mindset. So I'm not thinking about how I'm portrayed as just a freelancer. It's no, I'm protecting like my business. So
Fliss Lee (21:52)
Hmm.
Rich Carter (21:53)
yeah, it's had a wider implication.
Fliss Lee (21:56)
That's really interesting. Talk to me about that shift then into creating your business and seeing it as a business.
Rich Carter (22:08)
Yeah.
Fliss Lee (22:09)
Yeah, because obviously now it's sign painting and you were doing just purely graphic design then. Talk to me about that process of kind of shift into seeing, rich the business I know.
Rich Carter (22:22)
Well, I actually saw a fellow creator, Taryn, who has worked with you. She
Fliss Lee (22:29)
Mm-hmm.
Rich Carter (22:30)
went from illustrator to studio owner. And I was looking at her like new stuff and I was like, yeah, I need a bit of that. That's exactly the shift I want to make. I'm not an illustrator, but the mindset shift or the perception shift is definitely something that...
not only I want for people's reaction to me, but for myself as well. So, yeah, I spoke to Taryn, who then put me in touch with you. it was, yeah, working together was the start of it in
Fliss Lee (23:10)
Hmm.
Rich Carter (23:11)
terms of positioning, values.
And just looking at myself as a business, so even down
Fliss Lee (23:17)
Mm-hmm.
Rich Carter (23:18)
to things like tone of voice. And as a brand designer, I'm great at doing it for other people. When they're already supplying me with this information, they're like, this is my personality. This is what I look like. And I'm great at distilling that and chatting with people. But I never had that conversation with myself.
Fliss Lee (23:42)
No.
Rich Carter (23:44)
So, yeah, chatting with you and drilling down into my values is the one thing that I think kickstarted it. Because in the early days, I was wrestling with something stupid like, hmm, is Rich C Studio like a good name? Do you remember? And like now it's like,
Fliss Lee (24:06)
Yeah I do.
Rich Carter (24:07)
it's just a name. Like, it's not about that.
Fliss Lee (24:09)
Ha ha.
Rich Carter (24:12)
people come to you for what your business offers,
Fliss Lee (24:15)
Mmm.
Rich Carter (24:16)
not about a name. So yeah, I've gone past that superficial problem.
Fliss Lee (24:21)
I remember that.
Rich Carter (24:24)
and it's funny. I saw an interview with Dave Grohl, of all people. I loved the Foo Fighters, and they said to him, have you got one big regret about your time in the band? And he was like,
yeah, I would have chose a better name than the Foo Fighters. And I just thought that and it took me back to our conversation, funnily enough.
Fliss Lee (24:47)
Huh.
Rich Carter (24:49)
I said, well, I thought to myself, like, I've seen them many times. And last time I saw them was in a big stadium. were 60,000 people singing along and chanting Foo Fighters without
Fliss Lee (25:01)
You
Rich Carter (25:03)
not knowing what he thought of the band's name. And not one of those...
people in that crowd thought it was a crap name. So yeah, just, yeah, there's more important things to worry about. Just crack on. It's
Fliss Lee (25:18)
just a name isn't it?
Rich Carter (25:19)
just a name.
Fliss Lee (25:20)
It's just a name. I think some people get stuck on that because you don't want to maybe answer some bigger, harder questions often.
Rich Carter (25:29)
Yeah, yeah. And that's something that's has prevented me with the graphic design tag, with the sign painter tag. I've been quite paralyzed in the past by it. Can't do sign painting as well as design, because what if clients will land on my website and see that I'm a graphic designer and they want a sign painter? Or what if I start calling myself a sign painter and they want a graphic designer? Am I cutting off?
half my audience and I wasted years thinking about that and just talking about it to no one else but myself. Just like,
Fliss Lee (26:09)
In your head.
Rich Carter (26:12)
yeah, shall I be a graphic designer? Should I just this year, shall I just say fuck it, I'm going to be a sign painter. I really like screen printing. Shall I be a screen printer? And it's like, it's just a title and yeah.
And you can waste years and I have, I can't say I have wasted years wrestling with these titles and it's, yeah, life's too short. Just do what you want to do and don't worry about how you're perceived. If you enjoy it, just do it. And that's basically my New Year's resolution this year. since then, I've set up a screen printing station in my studio.
I've been painting signs and I've been doing digital brand identities. People still find me and those organic conversations on the street are happening. And then next week I'll be screen printing a poster for a person. But it's not on my website saying I do screen printing. It's just because I started it as a hobby and that's how the universe works.
Fliss Lee (27:22)
You were creative,
you were creative, aren't you? So you're going to be doing multiple things.
Rich Carter (27:26)
Yeah,
but I've, you know what, I wanted to do screen printing way back in uni and I'm embarrassed
Fliss Lee (27:31)
Hmm.
Rich Carter (27:33)
to say I left uni in 2013. So it's taken me 13 years to set up screen printing out there just because I say, I can't call myself a screen printer because I'm doing something else. So,
Fliss Lee (27:48)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Rich Carter (27:50)
yeah, don't waste your life.
Fliss Lee (27:52)
you want to try it, try it. Well,
Rich Carter (27:54)
Yes.
Fliss Lee (27:55)
let's talk about that sign paint, you know, because you've obviously started your business as a graphic designer. What point did you go, I want to do sign painting, because you've shifted a massive portion of your business over to sign
painting now, haven't you?
Rich Carter (28:09)
Yeah. Yeah.
Fliss Lee (28:12)
How did you decide that's what you wanted to do and you were going to do it?
Rich Carter (28:15)
So it was one of those kind of weird light bulb moment. I'd be seeing stuff in the street. What is that? Again, it's like a label. What is that thing called? It's called sign painting. And the pandemic happened and we were all in our houses. And I thought, you know what? I'm just going to buy a tin of black paint and a couple of brushes and go in my spare bedroom with a glass of wine.
not advisable with enamel paint, I learnt the hard way.
Fliss Lee (28:45)
Nice. Ooh. okay.
Rich Carter (28:49)
So I started, yeah, started doing, trying to do some letters and I just thought, this is a joke, isn't it? Why is it so hard? Because I can write the alphabet pretty well with pencil, but oh, with a brush, it's a completely different thing.
Fliss Lee (29:09)
Yeah.
Rich Carter (29:11)
So then...
Again, my wife found a friend's dad who was a sign painter. Yeah, a weird kind of link there and she put me in touch with him. His name is Terry Smith. I'd like to give him a shout out because
Fliss Lee (29:29)
Hi, Tommy.
Rich Carter (29:30)
he's a proper old school sign painter. He's not online, which is probably why I'm not online now. I've learned everything from him, even this.
So, yeah, he hasn't got a mobile phone. He's had the
Fliss Lee (29:45)
Wow.
Rich Carter (29:46)
same landline number for 30 plus years. So if anyone needs him, they'll phone his landline. And yeah, he's just a proper character. And I went down to Emsworth for a week and basically lived with him. And he
Fliss Lee (30:03)
Bye.
Rich Carter (30:04)
taught me, know, the intro of sign painting.
Yeah, it just stayed with me. came home. I'd already built this kind of garden studio with my dad, who is a carpenter, luckily. So I've got a designated spot to get paint on the floor and not on the carpet. And I
Fliss Lee (30:28)
You
Rich Carter (30:29)
just carried on practicing. And he was such a lovely guy. He was like, if you ever need another day, just come down and hang out.
just working alongside him and seeing what was in his studio and what is possible with just a pot of paint, enamel paint and a brush. You can do anything, any message or paint any business. And something just lit up in me. was like, I got into graphic design because I wanted to work with cool people who doing things.
And then I went down the corporate route and it just never clicked. It was too kind of perfect, too boring really. And seeing sign painting and seeing how imperfect it can be, something just aligned in me and I was like, that's what I've been missing. I love creativity, I love design, but for me, good design isn't...
perfect isn't
Fliss Lee (31:34)
Hmm.
Rich Carter (31:36)
everything you see online. It's not digital. Don't get me wrong.
Fliss Lee (31:40)
Yeah.
Rich Carter (31:41)
I'll work digitally to set up big signs to make a template, but then I'll paint it on a building and then I'm doing it freehand.
Fliss Lee (31:53)
Hmm.
Rich Carter (31:54)
So yeah, something in me just discovered this tactile character for almost it's like a warm
design. And I've
Fliss Lee (32:03)
Mmm.
Rich Carter (32:04)
not looked back since. It's what I thought about when I first got into applying for design. Every design I like is that hand-lettered, illustrated, and yeah, just not really computer-made. Even today, like, all of my work is textured because I don't like the clean...
clean look. There's nothing wrong with it, but for me personally I prefer more characterful, human-made side of things.
Fliss Lee (32:39)
Yeah, it's like an art and a craft, isn't it? That is almost not, you don't get that kind of human touch and that kind of craft with computer-based design, which I mean, I love it. I adore the old sign. So I live in an mill town and there's loads of them. And I just think there's something really, well, it's unique, isn't it? But it's something really human and real about it, which...
Rich Carter (33:09)
Yeah.
Fliss Lee (33:09)
which a lot of creatives and lot of designers are actually drawn to.
Rich Carter (33:14)
Yeah, and you can see someone's work and you know it's their work, a mile
Fliss Lee (33:20)
Hmm, interesting.
Rich Carter (33:21)
off. It's like, say, an illustrator, you know someone's illustrated something because it's their style. I look at a sign and I'm like, oh, that's so and so. Didn't know they've done something around here. Yeah, so it's very unique. from a client perspective,
don't think there's anything better than getting your own personality on your building through some, yeah, working with another human. I don't think there's anything better than that.
Fliss Lee (33:54)
Beautiful, beautiful.
it's when it lasts for years that it's just so, it's less throwaway, isn't it? It just stays.
Rich Carter (34:01)
Yeah,
yeah, I'm like working in Froome. I've worked with quite a few businesses around here now and new businesses will pop up and will say, that's cool, who did that? And it's like, it's gone back in time, basically. It's like the word of mouth. And
Fliss Lee (34:21)
Nice.
Rich Carter (34:22)
even when you're on the job, the conversations you hear walking by.
are just gold sometimes. So being in
Fliss Lee (34:29)
Really?
Rich Carter (34:29)
that community and yeah, being chatted to, whilst you're working, yeah, there's something quite magical about that. And it's just getting away from the desk as well. one thing I wasn't ever really aware of because going back to that conditioning feeling of I need to be in my chair all day
Fliss Lee (34:53)
Mm.
Rich Carter (34:54)
is come like mid afternoon.
After I've had a nice walk around town or wherever I'm working, I come back in and I'm like, I want to be back outside again and
Fliss Lee (35:06)
you
Rich Carter (35:06)
come mid afternoon. I'm at my desk working and I'm kind of like bouncing off the walls. So that's something that I've learned in myself is just being up and away from a screen is crucial. So I kind of have a split now. I work on computer.
but half my time I'm actually painting or I'm making. So yeah, it's kind of a nice split for me at the moment. I'm not so, yeah, bouncing off the walls.
Fliss Lee (35:39)
really
interesting
It sounds like you've learned a lot about your, how you work through shifting to doing sign painting and go, hang on, I don't like working at the computer in the afternoon. Have you noticed that? And
Rich Carter (35:52)
Yeah.
Fliss Lee (35:53)
did you know it before or was it a friction that you had that you've only figured out since you've shifted?
Rich Carter (35:59)
It's
a really interesting question because this shift has happened in the last...
I want to say week, but like couple of weeks.
Fliss Lee (36:08)
Okay.
Rich Carter (36:09)
Yeah, so I mentioned earlier that I've been sort of reflecting on my career, so to speak, since we arranged this. And yeah, looking back, I'm...
I've been in all of these places and have just been, I was going to say chained to my desk. It wasn't that bad.
Fliss Lee (36:34)
Yeah.
Rich Carter (36:34)
But I've been sat at my desk and I've been wanting to look like I'm working and almost, I've said it before, but it's the only way I can describe it really. Almost feel conditioned to be in that nine till five work mode. And...
Looking back at all of these jobs, I said to myself, what would have made them better? What was I looking for? And I said it earlier, but I was just crying out for like a mentor, someone to just sit down with me and say, if I look at what they're making on their screen, just to ask the question, how'd you do that? But then just to turn around and go, sit here and I'll show you.
just to be open and warm and give me time to learn because coming from uni into my first few places, was like a baptism of fire. No one wanted to teach you. Everyone knew you were new, but no one wanted to kind of give you any knowledge, it felt personally.
Fliss Lee (37:39)
That's a shame.
Rich Carter (37:41)
So in the last couple of weeks, I've asked myself this question of what would I want?
And I've kind of just given myself permission to make it happen, just to be that boss that I always wanted. And that's like
Fliss Lee (37:56)
Hmm.
Rich Carter (37:57)
a huge shift is be the mentor I always wanted. So it's just something small. Like I've signed up to Skillshare for a year and I
Fliss Lee (38:06)
Nice.
Rich Carter (38:07)
will give myself two hours, say this afternoon to sit, shut down my emails, turn my phone off, two hours, do this class.
and make sure all of your focus is on this one Skillshare class. And just being that mental I always wanted, but just for myself, but blocking out time to actually make it happen. Like I
Fliss Lee (38:34)
Mm.
Rich Carter (38:34)
would love it if someone did that for me. So I'm doing it for myself. And that's huge.
Fliss Lee (38:40)
That's really interesting because, I mean, we worked together two or three years ago now, I
Rich Carter (38:47)
Why?
Fliss Lee (38:51)
time flies when you're having fun. And I
Rich Carter (38:52)
Yeah.
Fliss Lee (38:54)
think it's really interesting to say you it's almost kind of clicked almost maybe this year, but how have you found that transition to designing your business around you and...
that kind of shift to being able to do things your way. How have you found that over a few years?
Rich Carter (39:14)
A few years, wow, that's scary.
Fliss Lee (39:17)
Yeah.
Rich Carter (39:19)
The one thing I kind of attribute or I've come to realize is I've just stopped almost like waiting for permission to do it. Like, just give myself the permission to do it. And it's so easy to say, but to actually sit and accept that and go.
Yeah, all right. Because like with social media, for example, you only need to be on there for 15 minutes less for me. see a few posts and then I'm like, they're better than me. They're
Fliss Lee (39:59)
Mm.
Rich Carter (40:00)
doing more work. And it's that validation which is hard. And Instagram especially, just...
I feel like I was just waiting for someone to validate me to say... First off, when I got a job, it was like, I a graphic designer now? But
Fliss Lee (40:22)
You
Rich Carter (40:22)
no one's going to validate you. It's just like... Do you know what I mean? So you have
Fliss Lee (40:26)
Yeah, yeah.
Rich Carter (40:27)
to give yourself that go-ahead, that permission, and I just would never do that. And it would be going along. And even going out on my own, I kind of wasn't giving myself...
that permission to just do it. So what has changed is I no longer, it sounds quite grand, but I've come off.
the internet basically, because yeah, I found out I was like looking for validation and it's like now I'm a sign painter because I tell myself I'm a sign painter, it's what I do. So yeah, I was posting stuff to show people that I am this thing. And I just thought, how bizarre is this? Like, I'm trying to convince people that I've not even met.
I'm putting in so much energy creating posts that Instagram can choose not to show anyone. Do you know what mean? So it's crazy. yeah, I just took a step back and was like, stop seeking external validation that my business is my business because it's my business. Do you know what mean? So
Fliss Lee (41:43)
It's your business. Yeah.
Rich Carter (41:44)
I'll tell people what I do. I'll tell myself what I do.
I'll give myself
Fliss Lee (41:51)
you
Rich Carter (41:51)
the title that I don't even give myself a title. I'm just, I'm just doing what I do. So, yeah, I can't remember that your original question, but I'm no longer seeking validation. And for the first time in a long time, I've actually got forward momentum because of it. I'm not stopping and getting sidetracked by what other people are doing. I'm just like, let them. I'm going to do my own thing.
and touch wood this year it's actually going well.
Fliss Lee (42:27)
takes a bit
of time to get that in your head, doesn't it? I think that is amazing advice
Rich Carter (42:30)
massively.
Fliss Lee (42:31)
that you've just given there because I really, and I see this all the time and even with myself, we hold ourselves back because, but you are your own boss. You are the boss of your business. It is down to you. Sounds harsh actually, but it's down to you to validate yourself. No one else is going to.
Rich Carter (42:52)
Yeah, and don't get
me wrong, I'm not one to say I'm not like uber ambitious where I'm like working all the hours. Like I'm my own boss and more often than not, as soon as my kids walk through the gate, I'm like, ah cool, now home, log off for the day. And do you know what I mean? So it's not,
Fliss Lee (43:10)
Yeah
Rich Carter (43:14)
yeah, it's not fully focused. I'm off the internet, so I'm just.
working on my business all the time. No, my business, I don't know how to explain it. Like before, when you see people building businesses and talking about businesses, it's like, it should be 24 hours, seven days a week. Like there's nothing else matters. And
Fliss Lee (43:34)
Mmm.
Rich Carter (43:36)
when I left Studio Life, my only goal was to create a business that supported a lifestyle that I felt was important.
not for money, not for anything, not for clout or validation. I just wanted to do something I enjoyed, which I thought graphic design was, and it wasn't, 100%. So find something that I enjoy, which is helping small businesses with characterful design and colorful design and bold design that no one will say, I think that should be
point size smaller. It's like, it is what it is. But build a business that supports me and enriches my life. It doesn't take over my life.
Fliss Lee (44:28)
you
Rich Carter (44:28)
And that's what you have to remind yourself about. Like, yeah.
Fliss Lee (44:34)
Have you always been really good with boundaries in that case? Like have you always had a business that supports your life or what have you learnt there?
Rich Carter (44:45)
No.
Fliss Lee (44:45)
Because I'm still learning the switch so any advice? Please share.
Rich Carter (44:49)
No, no, no.
I call myself a recovering people pleaser.
Fliss Lee (44:55)
Mm.
Rich Carter (44:55)
So if you say, you work, or going back, say going back a few years, can you work till midnight tonight? Oh, yeah, no worries. If it will help you,
Fliss Lee (45:07)
Of course I'll get that done. Yeah.
Rich Carter (45:08)
yeah. Yeah, I have no boundaries whatsoever. And...
As a freelancer starting out, no boundaries whatsoever. was like, I was lucky to be doing this. I've escaped the studio environment I find quite difficult to being able to work from home every day. So I'm just lucky to be keeping the lights on each month. So of course I will deliver all of this stuff that is outside of the original brief just
Fliss Lee (45:41)
You
Rich Carter (45:41)
because I'm working from home.
And then, you know, three or four years doing that, it's like, I'm exhausted. I'm burnt out. In fact, I'm veering on hating my business.
Fliss Lee (45:57)
you
Rich Carter (45:59)
So it's not all sunshine. And I started reading books on boundaries and it was like, my God, this book is written for me.
yeah, so I've actually done a lot of reading on boundaries and it's just been really beneficial. And now I'm still not, you know, I'm not reformed people pleaser, but I will definitely put my business and myself
much higher, if not to the front, before
Fliss Lee (46:36)
Bye.
Rich Carter (46:37)
a client, if a client asks me something. But that's taken years.
Fliss Lee (46:42)
Yeah, takes a long time. And what was that book called? If anyone's interested,
Rich Carter (46:46)
I think it's just called boundaries, you know.
I will let
Fliss Lee (46:49)
I'll
pop the name of the book in the show notes for anyone interested in that.
Yeah, fab. there's so much, that goes into creating a business for you and it's not just creating the business. I just want to ask you, Rich, how did working on your brand of your kind of thinking around you being a business owner and your whole view of your business,
Rich Carter (47:16)
so this, this was around the time when I was questioning the name of the business. I was like, what?
Fliss Lee (47:22)
Yeah
Rich Carter (47:24)
So, yeah, let's start there. It was, I was just knowing a rich C studio, crap name, even worse as a logo because you've got a floating C. so yeah, the brand is quite,
quite a sore point for me. then, yeah, and it just got to a point where I was offering sign painting. And I would be looking at people like plumbers, if I'm being honest, because you'd get Gary, who's the plumber. And, you know, he's got his full name on his van and he just has plumbing services underneath it.
And this man was in front of me at the traffic lights one day and I was like, you know what, mate, just go home, get your logo out and just put sign paint in underneath. So I would love to say,
Fliss Lee (48:14)
Hehehehehe
Rich Carter (48:18)
yeah, I've done a lot of strategic work, but I looked at myself as a tradie because sign painting is a trade.
Fliss Lee (48:28)
interesting.
Rich Carter (48:29)
So I just thought, yeah, let's go Rich C Studio because I've got the URL. I've got an email address at...
I ain't changing now. So all the two difficult lights just came on for me in terms of domain name. So I simply got my original logo, shifted it up a little bit and then put sign painting underneath. And then I put sign painting company underneath. And then with that, as soon as I saw on the screen, I was like, yeah, something in me changed. I was like,
Company, yeah. And it sounds so stupid, but the psychological change that held in me, and I put it on my website, and yeah, I wasn't a twat. I didn't change all the copy to say we instead of me. So it's still
Fliss Lee (49:24)
You
Rich Carter (49:25)
written from first person perspective, but my logo now says company and a little.
Yeah, it changed something in my mindset of how I speak about my company. Yeah,
Fliss Lee (49:39)
interesting.
Rich Carter (49:40)
that was quite a subtle change, but it's definitely, yeah, been a big change, even though it doesn't look very big.
Fliss Lee (49:50)
That's really interesting.
So, you have mentioned that you're not online, Rich. And I know
that you
Rich Carter (49:57)
Yes.
Fliss Lee (49:57)
don't really promote your business using social media and I get a lot of people saying to me, I hate social media. how have you shaped that?
like how your business grows, not using social media. I'd love to hear about this.
Rich Carter (50:13)
Yeah, okay. Full disclaimer, I've got no plan. I didn't even
Fliss Lee (50:21)
Ha ha.
Rich Carter (50:22)
have a plan to come off of Instagram. I'm one that can, I don't use it each day and when I do post, I won't scroll. So I wasn't actually a big kind of consumer on it. But yeah, actually not posting on Instagram.
just happened. I think it was around Black Friday and then every single post was about Christmas and that kind of thing and I just thought,
Fliss Lee (50:50)
Mmm.
Rich Carter (50:51)
you know what, let's just, I'll just call it quits for that the rest of the year in terms of company promotion and then I just felt quite free and clear without it
I've got no plan and I've got no problem with social media either. I will be back on there
Fliss Lee (51:14)
Yeah.
Rich Carter (51:14)
because I have found work through it. It's brilliant. At the end of last year, I just made some posters, some tongue in cheek posters saying, get rich quick.
Fliss Lee (51:27)
Ha ha ha.
Rich Carter (51:28)
With, yeah, a load of jokey copy on and I just put them around my town.
and they seemed to attract a lot of attention and people found them funny. So yeah, it's my own little get rich quick scheme that has
Fliss Lee (51:44)
I that.
Rich Carter (51:45)
got me some work. And I just saw the benefit of actually talking to people, just
Fliss Lee (51:51)
Mmm.
Rich Carter (51:52)
going into shops and yeah, I was nervous. I had flyers with me and I would just say, I noticed you haven't got your name above your door.
would you like me to paint it for you?
Fliss Lee (52:05)
Wow.
Rich Carter (52:06)
Just going back to the core of what sign painting was, people would just go, do you want a sign? that's straightforward. So yeah,
Fliss Lee (52:16)
Hmm. Hmm.
Rich Carter (52:18)
that's what I've been trying to do more and more. Just talking to people because yeah, it's like with design, digital design.
I lost that connection. I wasn't actually making anything tactile. I used to work on stuff that got printed
Fliss Lee (52:38)
Mm-hmm.
Rich Carter (52:39)
and that went and part of me lost my love of design.
So I will go back to social media. I'm not off social media. My accounts are still on there. Yeah.
But in terms of, don't think I've missed anything.
I didn't start my business to do anything other than to.
do
something I enjoy doing, I don't like
Fliss Lee (53:02)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Rich Carter (53:03)
the showy aspect of social media. So yeah, I'm happy to be doing what I do and get to do what I do, but I don't feel the need to show how happy I am doing it. I know how happy I am.
yeah, and I've said in my...
website right up. I'm just like a humble one-man band and that's the way I like to keep it.
Fliss Lee (53:25)
really sounds like you've kind of gone, what do I enjoy and what suits me with marketing my business and I'm going to do that, which is like really fun flyers as well. That's like having fun in your business and speaking to people. Like that seems to be your strength and what you enjoy. So you've gone, how do I do that?
Rich Carter (53:43)
Hmm. Yeah, just again, it's like zooming out what would my ideal scenario be. And I just thought, yeah, it's about having fun.
It's just, it's work. Like if I worked in a studio and it wasn't my business.
Don't get me wrong, I would still do a good job, but it would just be a job. So part of me was like, it's not life or death. Let's just, let's have fun. We're only here once. Let's not take ourselves too seriously and just try things. And if it doesn't work, then go back on bloody Instagram and make a reel
Fliss Lee (54:32)
You might see Rich back on Instagram one day.
It sounds like it's working
Rich Carter (54:36)
Yeah.
Fliss Lee (54:36)
for you, Rich, though, so you don't need to be on there, which is wonderful.
I absolutely loved we talked about when you said just. think that's, and actually I think what I'm going to take away from that is I'm going to listen to when I use the word just and see what that is actually mean. Am I diminishing anything? So I kind of picked that up. And then I'm taking away the fact that you've said you've got to validate yourself, which you know.
I am big on anyway, but I think we all need a reminder of that, Rich. So,
Rich Carter (55:06)
Mmm. Yeah, it's powerful.
Fliss Lee (55:09)
yeah, it's really powerful, isn't it? So I love that. I have absolutely loved chatting to you today. I've got a couple of questions that I really want to ask you, which I ask everybody. Before we sadly wrap up, I want to know, what in your experience is the biggest barrier to somebody doing things their way?
Rich Carter (55:29)
I've already touched on the labelling, so I say it from a personal perspective, it's holding... I put things in my way that blocked me, unintentional, but yeah, just telling myself I can't do things or I shouldn't try things and
Fliss Lee (55:49)
Mmm.
Rich Carter (55:50)
touch...
Things that don't necessarily tie to my business, but that I would get enjoyment out of. like screen printing, for example, I've put that off for so long because I'm like, I'm learning sign painting. shouldn't add something else to the mix, even though it really fulfill me and make me happy. Yeah.
Fliss Lee (56:10)
short. Yeah.
Rich Carter (56:14)
So I would say, yeah, just labeling.
in my business for myself,
Fliss Lee (56:23)
you
Rich Carter (56:24)
self-imposed titles can
Fliss Lee (56:26)
you
Rich Carter (56:26)
hold or has held me back massively.
Fliss Lee (56:30)
Mm-mm. Mm.
Rich Carter (56:32)
but it'd also be just
Be the person, this is for me, be the person that you've always wanted to work for. Because that's what's really opened things up. I say in the last couple of weeks, I've sat down at my desk out there and I've heard past bosses saying, shouldn't do this or log off that or why are you on the internet? And it's like, nah.
like my boss is me and he's all right. Like he's chilled out and yeah. And it's like my wife came back the other day with Ada and she said, are you finished now? Because I came out to say hello to them and I was like, yeah. And it wasn't in
Fliss Lee (57:24)
It can be.
Rich Carter (57:25)
a slacker kind of way. It was like, yeah, you're all home.
I'm my boss and yeah, it's given myself permission to to be the boss I always wanted and that that comes from start and finish times to stuff I want to learn. So going back to doing Skillshare classes, I will look at my calendar and I'll say Friday morning could be a good time to learn that software that I've always wanted to learn or to
spend the next three hours making a reel. Or do you know what I mean? just
Fliss Lee (58:11)
Yeah.
Rich Carter (58:11)
giving myself permission and being the boss I was crying out for all those years ago.
Fliss Lee (58:18)
That's nice. I think that's the answer to my second question, which is, what's one thing that's helped you to do your thing?
Rich Carter (58:25)
Not
taking myself or my business so seriously. Like things change, we change. So
Fliss Lee (58:35)
Mmm.
Rich Carter (58:36)
my business has changed. So when I first started out, was graphic design. I'm gonna do graphic design my way. So yeah, not like a big studio, just my own thing.
And then a year or two later, I was like, no, I quite fancy sign painting. And then I started it and it became a passion. And I was like, this
Fliss Lee (59:04)
Hmm.
Rich Carter (59:05)
needs to be my business. And then how I pivoted clients from graphic design, was like, actually, let's just merge them together. yeah, just not be so rigid and just
Fliss Lee (59:21)
Mmm.
Rich Carter (59:22)
Yeah, go with the flow.
Fliss Lee (59:27)
great
advice. That is really good advice. Thank you so much for chatting to me today, and sharing your story with us. It's so interesting and I've absolutely loved our chat.
Rich Carter (59:40)
No, thank you.
Fliss Lee (59:42)
If anybody wants to find you, how can they do that, Rich?
Rich Carter (59:48)
Well, I'm all over the socials, banging out rules every day and stories.
Fliss Lee (59:50)
Hehehehehe
Rich Carter (59:55)
So yeah, Instagram
at Rich C Studio. I'm on LinkedIn
again at Rich C Studio. I'm also on Holly and Co. I sell lots
Fliss Lee (1:00:07)
yeah!
Rich Carter (1:00:07)
of
signs and woodcuts and button badges and stuff. Again just search Rich C Studio and
Fliss Lee (1:00:14)
Nice.
Rich Carter (1:00:15)
my website surprisingly is richcstudio.co.uk. Yeah so yeah
Fliss Lee (1:00:21)
There you go, memorable. The name works. Thank you.
Rich Carter (1:00:26)
I've come full circle my name is absolutely banging.
Fliss Lee (1:00:30)
I love that and if you are in Frome you might see Richard painting a sign in the street.
Rich Carter (1:00:36)
Yeah, yeah,
I'm slowly taking over the town by painting up. I've done butchers, haberdasheries, property places, yeah, you name it.
Fliss Lee (1:00:49)
Love that. Love
that. Thank you, Rich.
Rich Carter (1:00:52)
All right.
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